Anyone been there?

[sanpet]

Gold and greed is what the Utes don't want.They will kill to keep others from having it.

[KsTHer]

All the gold and the cattle of a thousand hills .... All of it belongs to God be He Towats or Jehovah or whatever you want to call Him. If He is the creator of the universe, (and He is!) then all of it is for His use and you cannot touch it unless you do so with His blessing and for His glory. If you own it (legally in this society), then you may use it as He desires. If you use it in other ways He does not approve of, don't be surprised if it profits you very little. I had more I wanted to say but I am compelled to hold my peace. Suffice to say that very little treasure exists that God will allow to be found today unless you are to use it for what you already know it should be used for. If you don't know then: don't expect to find any treasure anyway.

[Lostaslost]

KsTHer, I agree with you completly. That being said I am no different than any other person. If I was to get into a mine and make off with gold I know that my problems would have just began. My wife has told me over and over again that we do not need the gold.

I think I would be no different than Caleb rhoades. He gave gold to the Mormon Church and my church is the Catholic Church. I would certainly give gold to them. Then I would also help people out in other ways. Of course when it gets around that this guy is handing out money then you have every soulk in America standing at your front door. It has to end at some point and their has to be priorities.

Of course a big part of it with me is saying and knowing that I have been succesful. This is just the way it is with me. I have played with this for way to long. Mel Fisher, I think it took him 15 years and I have been at it now for a total of 28 years with this New Year. Mel lost much inorder to fill his quest. His son and Daughter and law where lost when a boat sank. A kid jumped off of the boat to dive. This was a news reporters kid and he was sucked right into the props of the boat when the blowers where running. He was in a constant battle with Florida and the USA government who had only put someone their to watch and see to it that they where not screwed over with their cuts. The people of America is the wrong ones here as we have let it just continue own. Yep, we are a free country!

The movies that I have refered to many times are great movies. Someone definitly knew what they where doing. Evidently there are code breakers involved with Treasure hunting. I do know this for a fact and I will say that I am definitly no code breaker. I read alot and I also watch National Geographic and the History Channel. I have been to Cibola and I know what works and what does not. Then with what I might say does not work it very well may as I can not just run around all over the place free as a bird. There is always someone looking over my shoulder.

Enough said
Lost

[KsTHer]

Lost,
I commented on the "Where is the Ark of The Covenant?" topic in response to Mahalla2. I believe that these topics are inter-related somewhat and my reply to Mahalla2 more or less explains my position on what I commented about here. Perhaps this explains my earlier comment here as well.
Ron

[Robert L. Gifford]

Hello,
It's been sometime since I have been on the board, but it's still as interesting as ever. Lots of old names and a lot of new ones.

I looked at the list and agree that a few have been there, and most have not. I won't point fingers, with one exception, Boren has never been there, and thats fact, unless you count dreams.

I went to Alaska last summer and did well on the 40 mile river. While I was there I thought about the picture that I was going to release to someone this year. I will do it sometime between now and August. I was standing just above Towats when the picture was taken, so Towats is not in the picture, but where he was looking is in the picture.

LostasLost, I don't think your are lost, at least not like your were when Dale Past.

Robert L. Gifford

[Lostaslost]

Robert you always are wanting to confuse me. Yes I am lost again as to what you are saying. Now you want to throw in Dale Past. Well at least this time it is not Paula! Me and her don't get along to well at all and I am sure she knows it. So you can use Dale Past and I will stay lost on that subject for awhile.


Good to see you back.

Lost

[brockroberts]

RL Gifford Dale passes he still kicken. Did you ever send that pick? I still dont think it will give it away. I know up the canyon theres a spot that will pull a compass off north. Gold hill will do the same in nevada. Allot of cool things there but never saw a ute there. I stay in roosevelt and drive thrue the res every day some times twice or three times a day. Only see taging on old houses the utes arnt very interested were im headen. Then we are runing gpr all 4 days up there. The same as peradice peak. They must know you know somthin I dont lost!!

[Lostaslost]

Gold hit a new high today at $1243 a ounce. Tommorow will go over 1250. Maybe silver might go to $20. How many are going out in the hills to pan a little gold this year? They make good plastic sluces that are fairly easy to carry. Find something doing this and then bring a metal detector with you and find the bedrock.

What do you think Utes. You knowing it can't be done after all of these years don't you. Smile and grin when you think about it. Don't you go to shooting me when I show. I be your buddy! You don't want to cause a great Klondike do you?

Lost

[Lostaslost]

I am looking for some information here. Who knows what here? Has anyone ever heard of there being a spiral staircase in one of the Sacred Mines. Ok we will think of the Sacred Mines as being the Josephine, Carrie-Shinob and or the Lost Rhoades Mine. Here I am thinking that this spiral staircase might be at the Sacred Mine # 2. Can anyone help me here and if so where is your info coming from.

Thanks
Lost

[JB Lapoint]

spiral??? dont know but several books talk about a stone staircase in maybe the lightning ridge area

Joe

[Trigace]

I think there is supposed to be a shaft out beyond the head of Blind Stream and near the top of the cliffs that drop down into the South Fork of Rock Creek that has a stone staircase, possibly spiral, I can't remember. It seems like it was in Thompson's book. I'll have to check. I've even looked for it but couldn't find anything.

[Lostaslost]

The reason I am asking here concerning the Sprial Staircase is that in a book I am reading it is indicating a Anchient treasure being hidden in an underground cavity and that you go down it by using a spiral staircase. The book is fiction but I have found that in these books they are getting their info from someplace to use in the stories. The hidden anchiet treasure is leading me to believe that it is the Ark of Covenant. Many anchient mysteries are hidden and this would open the peoples eyes of the world.

I know I have read more than one thing about the spiral staircase but finding the info again can be a real pain as many of you know.

Thanks for the info.
Lost

[Lostaslost]

The rivers here are running very high and in fact sitting records for the flow rates. Snow is still very visible on the slope and it is supposed to snow tonight. It has been raining and it poured all day yesterday and is raining now. In rained all night. All of this rain hitting the wet melting snow just makes it even worse. The resovoirs are all full with water pouring over the spillways.

Lost

[SilenceIsGolden]

Trigace, one of the mines in that area having sort-of spiral stairs is the Foreman mine, the story is on page 87 of Faded Footprints as well as several other places in other books... The printing of the book after Thompson's death has a picture of George standing in the old Foreman Mine on the memorial page after the preface and contents... What you can't see in the picture is the five curving stairs just to George's right, and the upper entrance to the cave/mine. That mine is REALLY hard to find, I found it because whoever is working it left a bright orange Home Depot bucket outside the entrance a couple years back... I'll tell you privately where it is if you like, but don't want everyone who reads this to go looking for it because some people are actively digging it out still. The stairs only go to the upper chamber, there's a deep shaft leading to a long lower chamber. It's an amazing cave, and I think a Spanish site, but I don't believe it's the Rhoades or even the real Foreman Mine. Mace Foreman seems to have found the Rhoades Mine, which has steps going down into it, but isn't particularly close to Upper Blind Stream or Lake Basin...

None of those mines seems to be Carre Shinob though...

[SilenceIsGolden]

Greg has some good pictures of the Foreman Mine here: http://www.uintahtreasure.thunting.com/foremanmine.html
The first pic is from “Faded Footprints” p. 88, and you can kinda see the steps… Ed Foreman is standing on about the third step down… Greg’s third picture shows that bright orange bucket that led me to the spot… hehehe…

Lost, I’ve seen several stories about mines with stairs up near the top of Blind Stream/ East Grandaddy Mt. like Trigace says, and I figure most of them are about the Foreman Mine… They’re confusing though if someone hasn’t seen the actual stairs. One says something like “stairs going down into the mine,” and another mentions “stairs carved down into both sides of the mine.” When you find the actual shafts you see that the stairs don’t go all the way down, they just go down to the edge of the mine, or in the Foreman Mine, down into the first chamber of the thing. In that area there’s a lot of stairs though, some natural and some manmade. I wonder if someone read those stories and got the wrong idea, thinking that the stairs go all the way down… or that one of those mines is the Rhoades Mine.

There is another story, that of Joseph Peterson on p, 402 of “Footprints in the Wilderness,” that tells of a sloping shaft with stairs in it going all the way down, up on “the barren baldies… overlooking Grandaddy Lake.” I haven’t ever seen that shaft, though I have wandered the ridge tops overlooking Grandaddy on East and West Mt. I wonder some if the story didn’t get confused, because the description does sound a lot like the Foreman Mine also, though the location is a bit off.

If I was going to guess though, I’d bet you're thinking of the “Hathenbruck Report,” page 72 of “Utah Gold Rush.” Hathenbruck describes “a narrow tunnel leads downward into the lower level of the mountain, past hand hewn steps to a wooden door…” and “…Behind the door are several more stone steps leading down into another room.” It would be pretty easy to imagine those stairs curving or even spiraling…

[Lostaslost]

Ok as far as the stairs going down in the Carrie,Josephine and the Lost Rhoades Mine this is in the Hathenbrock report and I know that this is correct. Nope I did not see the steps as I have said I just steped in. The smelter was right in front of me there not 20 feet and it was big and in perfect condition as it is out of the weather. Now it is certainly out of the weather as the Utes blew tons of rock over the enterance just as I have said.

What I am asking does concern a spiral staircase and it is speculation on my part that the Ark rest their and or did. I have read something that leads me to believe that this is where the Ark rest and or again did at one time.

Take care
Lost

[Trigace]

Silence-
Yes, I've been to what you are callling the Foreman Mine in the Lake Basin area several times. In fact, I took Greg and his brother to it a few years back. I didn't think this was the staircase mine though because the steps down to the first level looked natural and irregular. The shaft going deeper had an old wooden ladder in it when we first went there and was rotting and not stong enough to support you without a rope. In the tunnel at the bottom of the shaft the rock was a reddish color as I remember. There are two entrances to this mine: the one shown in Thompson's book and another one just above it -- a vertical drop entrance that goes into the first room area. It's not hard to find if you know which way to go.

On top of East Granddaddy Ridge there is a shaft (actually it looks like a natural cave opening that has been widened) that you can climb down around the rocks with a rope. It goes down about 30 feet to a tunnel that goes another 30 feet or so. There are mining tools (ladder parts, hard hat, fuel and water containers, etc.) in and around the shaft. But I don't think this would be considered a staircase entrance either.

[SilenceIsGolden]

Lost, something to think on...
Hathenbruck says in that report there's an Indian burial ground 250 meters NW of the Rhoades Mine on the crest of the ridge...
Presumably that's 250 meters from the west entrance of the Rhoades Mine, which is 1000 feet from the east entrance...
Meaning the burial ground is about 1800 feet NW of the East entrance of the Rhoades Mine, on the crest of the ridge...
Hathenbruck said in newspaper interview that the Rhoades Mine is in a vein about 1/2 mile long, close to the distance he describes from the Rhoades Mine to the burial ground...
In his report to the Sylvanite Mining Company he places another rich mine on the ridge West of the Rhoades Mine...
That mine on the ridge is said to be a continuation of the Rhoades, meaning it lies within the same 1/2 mile vein....
Placing that mine on the ridge, in or near the Indian burial ground...
Or perhaps that mine IS the burial ground...
Shouldn't be hard to find, once you find one, the other is very near. They look almost exactly alike.

[SilenceIsGolden]

Trigace, yep that's the one! I see what you mean about the stairs being natural and I agree. I was thinking maybe someone else saw them in the past and thought they were man-made... and thus the stories got started. If that isn't the case, well I'm with you. I've walked all over up there and never seen a shaft with hand-carved steps.

I took a bit of that red rock for assay once, as well as some of the yellow from the iron blowout about a hundred yards to the north, it was pretty boring iron/manganese ore, though there was some titanium- rutile in some calcite in one specimen... nothing commercial grade though... Made me wonder a bit about all the work someone put into digging it out. The dump isn't very big though, perhaps it was mostly open when they first started working on it...

I like that chimney, the upper entrance. It really is a cool spot. You must have found it long before I did, is it yours? I've researched it and didn't see a claim filed, but someone is clearly working it a bit.

That other shaft, I think I know the one but I've never been in it... is it the one that lies on the eastern Apex claims?

[Lostaslost]

Silence I know exctly where everything is there. I found the buriel grounds first and I knew what I was standing on and got the creeps and sure hoped that the Utes where not to concerned about me being on the grounds. I got off real quick when I figured out what I was standing on. No seen graves but thenthe Utes do not bury there dead as the whites do. I do not know how and or what was done with the Spanish but then Garcia says that they where there for awhile after being defeated and so I think they would have taken care of their dead right there before leaving. They supposedly covered over the entrance which at that time was a overhang. This would have taken some time and they definitly knew what they where doing. Then as far the entrance I found I do not know and it is not said who and or what group opened this up on the Josephine and or Carrie. Maybe the Utes opened this up as they where buring there watchers there. The entrance was just about a doorway with the rock that was cut out standing right in front of it by a little bit and you had to go around the upright boulder to enter the cave. It is a cave now with the overhange being covered. Now the entrance iis also covered with tons of rock. Well you could take and start digging right where the overhange was and brake in but then the Utes rode up on me and my son and stayed hidden in the timber. My guess is that there was only one Ute but not sure at all. I would think I could dig for a half day and or less and be in like Flint.

Now my concern with the spiral staircase is that I am thinking that this case just might be in the Sacred Mine # 2. This mine does have a name that was more than likely given to it by the Utes but I have never said that name and never will. The Utes seem to want to keep this name to theirselves and I understand this and so I just leave the name between me and the Utes. They might just sneeker at me for saying that I know and or call BS on the matter but I know and they had better believe this much. Yes I know the other mine that you are talking of and I have given out the name many times and anyone can look and see the name on Dale Bascoms book and his small chapter on the Sacred Mines with the map showing. Take notice that the buriel ground is showing on his map also. Somebody definitly knew what they where doing when they drew out that map. It all jives with the Hathenbrock report except for one small detail and the map is coded.

Well now Boren says that he entered the Carrie but he never entered the Carrie and if he entered any mine at all it would have been the Sacred Mine # 2 which he says that there is a trick too entering. Then he said he entered with ropes. Well I have been told that the part where he says that there was Spaniards that had been thrown off to their death was really true but I do wonder about it all. Possibley this just might be where the spiral staircase is at. We do not have any real info on this other than Boren and I can assure you he did not need ropes to enter the Carrie.

Take care
Lost

[SilenceIsGolden]

Lost you got my drift right away... I think a spiral staircase would have to be in the mine tall enough to need ropes to get into. I agree with everything you said. That burial ground seems to be a key to me- as you say, the Indians didn't bury their dead the same.

Also thinking some on Hathenbruck's report and noticing a lot of similarities to Aaron Daniels' and Joe Walker's descriptions of Carre ShinOb. Both have low entrances, partly covered. Both have Spanish artifacts and bars of metal. Both have a vein of gold going up the roof with smaller veins beside it. Both have dead Ute chiefs buried there, as told by the Utes regarding Walker and by Bullock in regard to chief Black Hawk's burial...

I also noticed that Daniels' description of the corn gold would seem to match Hathenbruck's descriptiion of the upper mine as far as being on a plateau and being rich- at least on the surface- as FWC said. I'm wondering if Daniels' corn gold wasn't in or near the burial ground, on the flats near sacred mine #2.

I agree Boren probably didn't enter Carre ShinOb, unless it had a higher entrance that nobody else mentioned, such as Aaron Daniels, Joe Walker, possibly Hathenbruck, and of course yourself. All the people who found it seem to agree the entrance is low and partly covered (now completely covered)... Boren might have gone in the upper mine, the one above and to the west. I guess you know pretty well where that staircase is probably at.

Good to see ya again Lost.

[KsTHer]

Lostaslost,
I am going to go out on a limb here. I will say that I don't believe that the Carre Shin Ob and the Lost Josephine are the same mine. I will also go on to say that the Utes are guarding the Lost Josephine as well as the Carre Shin Ob as well as other mines and caches in the Uintas. I will expound on that later. For now, you have my blessings to argue as much as you like. If nothing else we will get this forum fired up.
Ron

[Lostaslost]

Ron I will not argue with anyone on the subject. You are welcome to have your on opinions but I can assure you that you are definitly wrong on the Carrie and the Josephione not being the same mines. They are most definitly and then it is also the Famous Lost Rhoades Mine also. This is the one that he gave the assays for. Argue if you want about it but I know and I do have all of the proff I need. It just really does not make any difference for me as I know for sure. I could write a book on it but I will never do it. In order to do so I would have to explain everything and then tell all of the proff. In order to do that the location would be given away and it will never happen.

Now as far as the both of them being guarded I can full assure you of this as one is all three of the mines. There is two others there and all of this is again in Dale Bascom's book and the map is good as far as the layout. The location is totally wrong with the place and I have said this before. The other two mines are also guarded also because you can pretty much not be at one without being at the others. I am positive that whoever was at the Carrie in Dales story has told nothing but the truth when he was in the mine walking in water and looking with amazment at all of the gold on the walls. The water is the underground river that Boren talks about in his books.

And you Utes still owe me 100 pounds! You can pay me now and or I will get it on my own. I am going to be succesfull yet. Now if someone gets hurt then you are going to have to worry about how the story is going to spread and where it all took place at. Then you will then have major problems for sure. Then you can also worry about what will happen if I make off with gold bars and get caught with them. I will only let your imagination wonder on how you will take care of the crowds then with the Feds all over the place. Make it easy on yoursleves. 100 pounds in raw gold and my son and I will never be heard from again. I know, you are going to take a chance and roll the dice. Good luck!

Lost

[roughrockxxx]

Silence:
Good prospective on comparing the Walker- Danials stories. We get intwined to believe the published books as "the way it is"
as to each in its prospective areas, such as that story suppose to be in dryfork. Why not rock creek. I think if the truch be known, we were meant to be thrown off, or at least KRB and Gale rhoades were trying to make them fit another area because they couldnt find anything in the orginal area, say rock creek.

[KsTHer]

Lost,
I have never been to the Carre Shin Ob, but I believe I have been very close to the Josephine. I cannot divulge all of my reasons for believing that at this time. I have seen a number of things in this forum and the treasures of Utah forum as well as the books on the subject and one other source (that I will not divulge unless I receive his permission) which lead me to believe that I was very close indeed.

I have been searching for a few years and I have come to the conclusion that I don't want to pursue opening the Lost Josephine (at least not at this time). I didn't know it at the time but it is also being guarded. I have seen them. If they were not concerned, it would be no big deal. I have no problems with the Utes and their position. I have some Native American blood flowing in my veins as well, and can empathize with them.

There are plenty of other lost Spanish mines, etc. in the Uintas that they are not concerned with. My only problem is in figuring which ones they are or are not concerned with.

I do have a few things that I may share as I feel comfortable with sharing them though. What I want to do is bring out a few posts from the web forums which I feel have led me to the area I have hunted. Note that I have not done this alone, nor do I feel that I can take very much credit in my search.

Since this is about the Lost Josephine de Martinique, perhaps it should be posted under that topic.

For that matter, maybe I should not have challenged you at all. I know that you will stick to your belief that the Josephine aka Mina de las Yutas is the Carre Shin Ob, but I thought I would like to energize this forum a bit on the topic.

I will go on to add that I do not believe that the mine that John Young found in 1939 is the Lost Josephine. To me it just doesn't fit the waybill to a tee.

Ron